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Post Info TOPIC: gas mileage


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Date: Jul 4, 2013
RE: gas mileage
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cool so ur only few yrs older than me i woulda been 9 in 86 that brand new engine price or rebuilt? thats not bad price.. i have no idea what prices would go for but.. heck Tim did tell me it wouldnt cost much to really restore a 80's monte...useing the stock motor from those days what could u be able to get out of it if it was built when gas mileage wasnt a issue... like my 5.3 im sure they had to lower the power out of it due to it being front wheel drive.. wonder what a 80's monte engine max output could be and as well as a 5.3 max output would be and wonder if the 5.3 would out do in numbers than the v8 of the 80's then could u throw the 5.3 into a 80's monte

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Date: Jul 4, 2013
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you cant be talking gas milage and max power. the 2 dont mix well.

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87 GN- in the process of being taken apart for a very long resto. 2011 Jeep Liberty


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kinda been going here and there... but since the 80s engines where limited for "better gas mileage" and that u can update those engines with todays tech to get better gas mileage.. therefore since my 5.3 was limited in power cause it being front wheel drive.. which 2 of the v8s would be the winner in a comparison after they been both alllowed to reach their engine maxness.. would the 5.3 have more power and newer engine better gas mileage even after letting it be tuned to its max hp output compared to doing same to the v8s of the 80's.. and if the 5.3 wins.. would/could u place it and have it work in the 80's monte... kinda making the best of both gens.. .. oddd gas question.. what kind gas does those v8s of any of the previuos montes needed? i know gas probally has changed since the 70's..is it a standard rule v8's need premium or better.. heck thats only thing i hate.. i dont mind the gas mileage, just when gotta pay what 10 or 20 cents more than regular gas.. and speically if the new v6 camaro has .. i dont recall the torque it has .. i know my v8 and their v6 has roughly same hp.. but the v6 uses regular gas i need premium.. seems like i got bad deal lol.. granted its yrs more new tech but not really since gm was designing the camaro back around same time the 5.3 was out there... heck had they toss that v6 into the monte as a mid engine choice than a gas hungry v8 .. the monte woulda made alot more sales....sorry for jumping ship and getting back on with this thread.. but one conversation led to this than that and we kinda just going with it.... i think main reason i had started this thread was cause i never had such crappy gas mileage with my 07 ss than i did when i bought this 06 ss.. i was seeing 14's in the gas mileage.. and i didnt know if it was still cause got it march 2012 so was it just bad winter gas they gave us or was it something with the way the previous owner had done to engine.. ran it wrong, wrong gas.. etc...so i was concerned it was something with the engine since again never seen gas mileage that low with my 07ss..

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Date: Jul 4, 2013
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The 5.3 is LS based and came out in 96ish, the new V6 came out nearly 15 years later and is 100% different than the 5.3.

 

A brand new motor, 350, 290hp, long block is $1900 shipped. Same motor as a turn key, everything included is around $2500. I wouldn't spend a single penny modding a stock 305 from the 80's to try to get max power out of it when crate 350's are so affordable (as long as you don't go big) Even my motor was $5200 shipped, came with everything including ac compressor, alt, etc. With the right trans and gears you can get a 4th gen into the 12's. Do a cam swap and you're at 430hp



-- Edited by PitchBlackSS on Thursday 4th of July 2013 03:44:45 PM

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Date: Jul 5, 2013
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wow sweet narley.. ok so the 5.3 is that old of technology .. makes sense well to me anyways with not much engine know how but makes sense that in 06/07 u wherent really gettting good gas mileage.. i mean u had a v8 but the numbers where anything to brag coming from a v8 it was just a v6 on steroids.. i did read the LS4 wasnt something new and it was shoved in there cause it was only v8 chevy could fit.. so u saying its from mid 90's then heck those are numbers that would reflex that time period.. the ZR-1 in 90 was big pushing the 300 hp mark so few yrs later yea i could see 303 hp v8 making sense... now i feel ripped off lol getting such a old engine in my car.. and they still couldnt get the DOD right.. i was just reading some post on the montecarloforum about people haveing some issues with the DOD.... so when i by a 80's monte u wanna hook it up for me lol... so those stock motors then .. where they a joke back then? i was born in 77 so i had no idea what was fast or not in the 80's i just loved the IROC-Z's(blue) and the monte carlo ss(black).. they to me where muscle car looking as i knew it lol.. and in ur opinion when i ever get a 80's monte its not worth keeping the stock motor and its pretty "cheap" to buy something way better.... now ur saying numbers like 430hp thats around the camaro ss.. would u throw that into a 80's monte? or to much modern electrical crap and other expensive modern stuff .. just stick with basic big motor?... just wondering if its not so expensive then way cars these days cost alot for the bigger motors? or does it cost only 20k to make a ss camaro and they sell it for 45k?
thanks for all the patience in reading and replying

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Date: Jul 5, 2013
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take a breath and break the post into paragraphs or something. Its nearly impossible to read. Too many different thoughts in the same line.


Any LS motor will fit into the engine bay of the 06+ Monte (00-05 also). All LS motors are the same size, just like all small block chevy motors are the same size. A 267 V8 is the same physical size as a 400 small block. Its the internals that make the difference.


The 90 ZR-1 was a different motor, was a LT series. Which is very similar to the older V8 from the 50's - 80's (Gen I)


Throwing a modern motor into an 80's Monte is doable, but not as easy as a Gen I small block. My motor is a Gen I block, has nothing in common with the new LS motors except the parts are named the same.


And if you want numbers to brag with, its torque. HP is nice, but wont get you moving without torque.

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Date: Jul 6, 2013
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i'm exhausted from this.. lol

1. its a known fact the C4 ZR-1 was well over 300hp, and way underrated. it was also never to its full potential due to they couldnt keep the timing belts on the timing gears. (its actually a incredible research on the LT5 if anyone has the time).

i'm trying to understand what you are looking for?

if you want to brag... well i do got my own opinions about braggers.

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87 GN- in the process of being taken apart for a very long resto. 2011 Jeep Liberty


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Date: Jul 7, 2013
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wow ill have to check on that about the ZR-1 cool.. i just knew at that time it was like biggest vette since the string ray..and i think it was top speeded for like 198mph or something like that...


so Pitchblack .. ur saying its easier then to toss a small block in the 80's and dont even think about trying to muster all the modern v8's with all their modern wiring gizmos then? reason was pondering about newer engine in a 80's monte was taking a shape i like (80's) and basically i guess taking the body and whamo throwing it onto a 2000-07 frame , wheels interior ect while having the older body style.. is that doable?... i like the 2000-07 style heck i like the '00 - the 05 grill better than mine but because its built along with the impala u could almost just call it a 2 door impala.. yes from side and back u can see difference but from the front u cant .. and even thou i do the basically the 6th/7th gen body is just a modern 4th gen i think that cause i grew up as little kid loving the 4th gen and the t tops and the words monte carlo super sport on the side just kinda to me maybe cause now adays u see basically 99% 4th gens are all SS's and u see monte from 2000 and til 07 .. i guess maybe cause it wasnt til 06 when they thru in a v8 again and no onw even looks at ur car.. but u see a monte from 80's u know theres a v8 under the hood .. i just feel to me that chevy had weaken the monte sportness for such long time, that it never regain that "muscle car" brand back.... u see a modern monte at a car show.. noone's wanting to see whats under the hood ... thats why i love when people see that yes they did have a v8 in them and people do get a shocked look when seeing under my hood... but u see a older monte and u do go look cause u know theres some version of a v8 under it.. either stock or some other v8 motor... forgive me for saying for those who have '00 and newer without the v8.. never saying the cars are worth looking at.. just the car shows ive been to over the yrs.. people are drawn to cars where people know,heard,seen, ect of a car that has a big motor...its hard getting people to even look at me when i drive into car shows let alone get anyone to even ask whats under hood cause they assume a v6.. once i lift hood people go hey when they do that neat cool ... thats all im saying about the modern montes that chevy weaken their muscle status...now maybe if they had more after market products for the modern montes but again even thats tough cause with all the modern gizmos under the hoods theses days theres barely room for modifications... for me its just a shame chevy killed the monte and just when they out a v8 in it but by then it was to late..

not related question just a pondering thought:
heres a question throwing out there.. can u make a 10 sec monte? and can u make it looking stock or do u gotta go all blown engine kinda thing like vin diesel's car the black charger (2 fast 2 furious) with the monster engine..


i guess in other words can u make a can fast enough for a strip but stock enough for the street?

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Date: Jul 8, 2013
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didnt read the giant paragraph more than 2 lines in before I gave up.

You can use a 00-07 frame because there isnt one. Its unibody. Plus it wont fit (even if there was a frame)

I never said not to swap in an LS motor, just an older small block is easier. There are plenty of LS powered 4th gens around. Its a straight forward install and its not that hard to do. Just costly if you want to go all new parts.

As for a 10 sec monte, there are a few in this club. Tommys monte is a 10 sec car and he drives it all over including out of state.

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Date: Jul 8, 2013
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is the older small block easier cause lot less wirings and modern gizmos' which in way u can skip out needing?

when u say older small block u just mean as in when it was designed as a engine not actually throwing in a old rebuilt motor... or is that only way to use a older engine is only by rebuilts due to u cant "order" from gm a older motor, or can u? just trying to understand when ur talking about the cost...

so tommys monte is street legel 10 sec car? cool.. but i guess when enough cash u probaly could make any car a 10 sec car.....


what made the grand national so special compared to the monte?

both being gm i woulda thought both would have same power plants

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Date: Jul 9, 2013
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by older small block I mean Gen I, came out in the 50's and ran into the 90's. Gen II are the LT motors. Similar in design to Gen I but different. Some parts are interchangeable. Gen III are LS motors, found in most GM V8 vehicles from 96+

You can buy a brand new "older" block and motor. I just bought one. GM still sells them, so does the aftermarket.

Its easier to install because its basically a direct swap. The new motors are physically a different size, you need special oil pan, special mount adapters, trans adapter (some installs), special headers, etc. The wiring inst a big deal. Either buy am aftermarket harness or send yours out to be "cut down". Its when they take out all the circuits you dont need.

Nothing against Tommy, but you dont need a lot of cash to build a 10 sec car. Tommys car is a show car as well as a "go" car.

As for the Grand National, it was a limited run, 3.8L V6 Turbocharged car.

Also, just because its GM, doesnt mean its the same powerplant. Throughout history, most GM divisions didnt share a single motor.

I think you need to find a good book, this is basic knowledge for any "car guy" no matter the age. Start watching car repair shows on TV, read some vehicle history books or just hit up Wikipedia and read about your favorite cars.

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Date: Jul 9, 2013
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ok that makes sense .. trying to fit a modern engine design into a older compartment is harder than just getting a engine thats based on that age of car design .. makes sense...

i think i could learn more from hanging with u some day than trying to find all this info..lol...

and i do know about the turbo alittle bit cause saw one on side road in centrla ny one summer for sell and i stopped by and looked at the info sheet on the car and when i saw a turbo on the hood and on the car info sheet i was like huh turbo.. i thought that was like new age let alone inports... so i looked it up when i got home and wow.. those turbos where super ass fast .. the times for that car would still out race modern sport cars today...

but thank u for u sticking by and explaining everything in enough understanding that well a engine idiot like me can actually understand.. thanks.. again i would rather hand with u and learn then try and understand something in a book lol...

again thanks.. i learned heck lot thru this chit chat we had

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Date: Jul 10, 2013
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what made the gn different? simple.. they're money pits/90% of the time they're like a woman on PMS etc. :rolleyes:

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87 GN- in the process of being taken apart for a very long resto. 2011 Jeep Liberty


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Date: Jul 10, 2013
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cause of the turbo in it ? had issues in those days with it?

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Date: Jul 10, 2013
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cause they're all a pain. the second you touch them they get to be a pain.

I settle for mine running 75% never 100%

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87 GN- in the process of being taken apart for a very long resto. 2011 Jeep Liberty


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Date: Jul 16, 2013
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what made those turbos so fast?

For the final year, 1987, Buick introduced the GNX at $29,900. Produced by McLaren Performance Technologies/ASC, Buick underrated the GNX at 276 hp (206 kW) and a very substantial 360 lb·ft (488 N·m) of torque.[5] This was created to be the "Grand National to end all Grand Nationals." Changes made included a special Garrett T-3 turbocharger with a ceramic-impeller blowing through a more efficient and significantly larger capacity intercooler with a "CERMATEL (Ceramic/Aluminum) coated" pipe connecting the intercooler to the engine. A GNX specific EEPROM, low-restriction exhaust with dual mufflers, reprogrammed Turbo Hydramatic 200-4R transmission with a custom torque converter and transmission cooler, and unique differential cover/panhard bar included more of the performance modifications. Exterior styling changes include vents located on each front fender, 16 inch black mesh style wheels with VR-speed rated tires, and deletion of the hood and fender emblems. The interior changes of the GNX included a serial number on the dash plaque and a revised instrument cluster providing analog Stewart-Warner gauges, including an analog turbo boost gauge. Performance was measured with a quarter mile time of 13.5 seconds at 102 mph (164 km/h) and a 0-60 mph (97 km/h) time of 4.7 seconds.[6] GNX #001 is the 1986 prototype currently owned by Buick and sometimes makes appearances at car shows around the US. The GNX had a ladder bar that ran from the midsection of the car to the rear axle, so as to increase traction. This is also the reason why a GNX will actually lift the rear end up when the car is about to launch heavily.

when i saw that on the info sheet on a GN i saw several summers back for sell i was like wow that was super as quick for the 80's what the hell happened since lol... but wow 30k k ill buy that since that same price range as the 06/07 ss and a 20 yr old car for same price is quicker go figure lol..


what makes a turbo over s supercharger better or worse than the other?.. sucks chevy didnt have a monte with those numbers.. speically since we all surposed to be one happy gm family lol

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Date: Jul 17, 2013
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an engine is an air pump, the more efficiently you get air in and out, the more power it will make. A turbo forces air into the motor, in turn, making more power.

there's nothing that make a turbo better than a supercharger and same goes for the other way around. Its personal preference. The main difference is the supercharger is belt driven and can take some HP away from the motor to spin the blower. Where a turbo uses exhaust flow to spin its turbine.

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Date: Jul 17, 2013
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dont u get quicker reaction thou with a supercharger than a turbo?

would u ever advise for or against hooking either or to the 5.3?

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Date: Jul 17, 2013
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turbos used to have a lot of lag, modern ones arent as bad, but its always there. Superchargers are immediate power.

Im always for adding a power adder to a car, but you'll need the supporting mods to do so safely. And with the amount of cash needed, you are better off buying a used performance car.

$6k - $7k for the supercharger / turbo kit
$1k+ to install
$2k for a built transmission
$2k+ in supporting mods and tune for the motor
$1k for misc items (fluids, etc)

Now you have the go, time to fix the suspension and braking system to handle the extra power, another $2k+

So you're at $10k - $15k to do it right and have one hell of a car.

$6k - $7k for you to do the work and just install the kit and hope for the best (or run minimal boost)

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Date: Jul 20, 2013
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lol

yea like a ugy told me one yr at a cruise night who had a 4th gen but was a pure show room stock ls black with beautiful chrome,,, told me use the newer as a driver and buy a southern monte and use it as ur racer that way u wont risk destroying ur daily driver and u can play with mods all u like and also being real wheel drive will be easier as well than a front wheel

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Date: Jul 25, 2013
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find me the gnx for 30k. i'll buy it now. haven't seen one under 50k in 2 years now.

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87 GN- in the process of being taken apart for a very long resto. 2011 Jeep Liberty
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